Comment from Jim Finocchiaro on April 1, 2009 at 11:52AM EST

sick and beyond disturbing.

Comment from Tom Hyberger on April 1, 2009 at 2:09PM EST

The travesty here isn't that the collectors did it but that the MANAGEMENT turned the other cheek until now. If Management didn't know it was going on they need to be fired for not monitoring their employees and if they did they need to be fired for allowing it. Either way the Managers and Director for the office need to be terminated. Anything short of that and it doesn't matter what happened because it is being ALLOWED. Management has an obligation to due diligence. When they fail in that capacity the industry suffers.

Comment from paybill on April 1, 2009 at 2:52PM EST

I taped it and just viewed it last night. I couldn't believe what I saw. I think there are a few that give our industry a bad name and those few REALLY gave us a bad name. It was incredible what went on. I don't know any other agencies like this, so I still have to believe they are in the small minority. I have to say I was a little disappointed in Rozanne's comments. Even if she agreed, she shouldn't have gone there. It doesn't look good for our industry spokesman to say that and then be able to avoid all the damaging legislation that could take place in Obama's term to our industry. How could further regulations prevent this anyway? Bad apples are bad apples, they don't care about the law.

Comment from Anonymous on April 1, 2009 at 3:08PM EST

What does ACA International plan to do about one of their own members (Academy Collections) that allows their collectors to scare women with the threat of rape? Souldn't they be expelled from the ACA?

Comment from A Collection Manager on April 1, 2009 at 3:34PM EST

Every industry has it's bad guys.

Comment from Anonymous on April 1, 2009 at 3:45PM EST

How do we know if everything on the show is true? It couldn't have been staged?

Comment from Doug Wilwerding on April 1, 2009 at 5:27PM EST

The silence on this topic is both deafening and telling. For too long the industry, the trade associations, the major players, and the clients have all allowed this to go on with a wink and a nod. Knowing that your collectors were pushing the edge and not getting caught was a badge of honor and respect among the industry insiders. I owned and operated a large agency for many years. While there were many things in the industry that bothered me greatly, disregard for the dignity of the debtor and a respect for the law was at the top of the list. Our company, Omnium Worldwide, had very stringent rules that were enforced without exception on collector actions. We didn't draw that line at the edge of FDCPA, we drew the line well inside the boundaries of a respectful, dignified approach to the debtor and consummate professionalism in all of our actions. Violators weren't slapped on the hand, they were shown the door. We weren't unique, but we were rare in this regard. And, we made a lot of money and we were extremely competitive. Profit and professionalism are not mutually exclusive in collections. Violation of the law, bush league bullying tactics in collections, and management teams that are so unsophisticated that they can only solve the challenge with abuse and threats will create a regulatory environment that is onerous beyond belief. And it will be what the industry deserves unless you take issue with this behavior and regulate yourself. ACA, state associations, investors, owners, and credit grantors have the responsibility to stop this behavior. Obviously the pain has not been great enough yet. This is not just a few bad apples, this is an industry wide problem. Pull your heads out of the sand and name names, distribute lists of the known violators, and clean up the industry. ...or live with the environment you will inadvertently create...and don't complain.

Comment from john pratt on April 1, 2009 at 7:03PM EST

Thanks for starting this discussion. We find that there are many great companies in our industry and great people who try to do this business in a good way. We have also seen very bad folks as we have seen on Dateline. I do not believe any of it was staged. I think anyone who has been in the collection business knows instinctually that what was shown was true. But I still know a vast majority of folks really try to work with the consumer.

Comment from Mike Ginsberg on April 2, 2009 at 8:00AM EST

Like all of us, I watched in disgust as Dateline featured segment after segment of appalling and despicable collection tactics. Let’s all wake up and smell the coffee, please.

NBC’s goal was obvious, apparent and very typical of consumer media outlets; use sensationalism to attract viewership. They know their audience includes the parent that just put their kids to sleep and flicked on the TV before calling it a night themselves. They know that many of their typical viewers are behind on their payments and possibly on the receiving end of calls from bill collectors. NBC’s goal was not to present a balanced overview of collection industry. Their sole purpose was to focus on what will attract the most viewers and by highlighting the tactics of a handful of deplorable collectors they accomplished their goal.

Roseanne Anderson from ACA did nothing wrong and she should be commended for stepping into the fire on behalf of the entire industry. I have not spoken with her but I can assure you that she knew what she was getting into when she agreed to participate. She did an admirable job getting her points across and I am certain she said a lot more about the benefits of collection agencies than what was aired last Friday night. I have been there myself with reporters numerous times and know for a fact that most of what I say hits the editor’s floor and never makes it to prime time.

The issue is not the media outlets portraying the ugly side of a few bad apples. The issue is not the spokeswoman for the industry not saying enough of the good stuff to defend the industry against such attacks. The issue is mismanagement, plain and simple. Collection agencies employ people. Lots and lots of people. All types of people in every city and town across America. Some collection agencies operate out of one small office and the supervisor is the owner that turns the light on and off each and every day. The culture of their agency is directly attributed to the actions of one individual, the owner-operator.

But what happens when the agency grows and opens additional offices or builds a sizeable call center under one roof? The staff grows, managers are hired or brought up from the collection floors, and goals are established. Some agency owners realize that managers are not born but trained, retrained and held individually accountability. Other owners do not make management training and accountability a top priority and that is when they run into problems. Collectors and new hires are not the only ones that need to be trained. Management training and accountability is essential for any size collection operation. This is plain and simple to explain yet challenging, costly and time consuming to implement.

Comment from Cindy White, NARCA on April 2, 2009 at 3:10PM EST

NARCA is issuing the following statement which gives a different perspective on the Dateline show: Last Friday, Dateline MSNBC continued their three-part series, "Inside the Financial Fiasco" focusing on America's debt epidemic. This show profiled the debt collection industry, interviewing debtors, academics and a collection industry spokesperson.

The show used a hidden camera to feature an extended report on the activities of a so-called collection agency operated by Tobias Boyland, a convicted felon. The report replayed several messages threatening arrest from individuals impersonating police officers who solicited payments on behalf of Andrew Bryzski of Buffalo, New York, whom callers claimed was an attorney at law. The report failed to inform its viewers that law enforcement officials in New York and Maryland were notified several months ago of Boyland and Bryzski’s actions. Consumer protection offices in both states were also given information that an injunction was entered in the Circuit Court for Montgomery County, Maryland in August, 2008 against Andrew Bryzksi and MoreStar Consultant, LLC, one of the companies NBC identified as operated by Tobias Boyland ordering Bryzski and MoreStar to cease illegal collection activities. The report also did not mention that the same Court cited both MoreStar and Bryzski for contempt in November, 2008 for violating the injunction and that New York and Maryland authorities learned of the contempt order after it was entered. The NBC report focused on a perceived need for more regulation of the debt collection industry. The report overlooked the fact that those charged with enforcing existing laws, which are designed to punish those who engage in illegal collections, have known of the activities of Mr. Boyland and Mr. Bryzski for several months, but have not yet seen fit to pursue any enforcement action. The National Association of Retail Collections Attorneys (NARCA) is the trade association made up of 700 law firms that represent creditors trying to collect monies they are owed in order to be able to extend credit and revive the economy. NARCA’s President, Robert Markoff commented that “it is unfortunate that Dateline chose to focus on a very few rogue collection agents, who so far have avoided enforcement action by state consumer protection offices, rather than the majority of the industry that works hard and acts responsibly. NARCA members and other industry colleagues work ethically to collect debt and uphold the law. We support the good efforts of our members and our extended colleagues in the collection agency industry, especially ACA International and its General Counsel Rozanne Andersen, who have worked tirelessly to treat consumers fairly and rid our industry of those who practice unlawfully.”

“There are hundreds of thousands of Americans employed in the practice of collecting debt who work hard to help the economy and assist consumers to restore their credit,” Markoff continued. “NARCA supports strict enforcement of the law and all efforts to rid our industry of such reprehensible conduct.”

Comment from bythelaw on April 2, 2009 at 4:07PM EST

I have a simple solution to resolve this problem. Allow Congress to enact a federal law that prohibits anyone with a felony conviction from having access to consumer reports. The penalty being hefty fine's, with possible jail time for the perps and agency owners who hire them. ACA's Rozanne Anderson can continue to state the official industry position, then watch as the unemployment rate in Buffalo skyrockets while we resume the task of collecting money owed by debtors.

Comment from Anonymous on April 3, 2009 at 12:45PM EST

While I don't believe any agency is "clean" 100% of the time, I think 99% of them are not "dirty" and truly attempt to police their ranks. The days of a wink and a nod as it relates to compliance have been gone for years; decades even. Any agency that has long term aspirations knows that and actively weeds out bad apples that cannot conform.

Like Paybill above, I have to believe the extreme violations shown on Dateline are rare. Maybe I live in a bubble, but in 24 years in the ARM industry I have never allowed a subordinate (or peer, for that matter) to say or do things like that. I wouldn't associate myself with an agency that turned a blind eye to that kind of behavior, let alone one that condoned it. I have to believe 99.9% of those in the ARM industry agree.

Although his comments above are self-serving (I know Omnium, and nobody is "perect"), Wilwerding's comment about "name names" makes sense to me. Although there would surely be beauracracy involved, an industry review of an individual's poor behavior/tactics that is published would solve many of these issues. Too many "banned" collectors from the same agency or location would also help to red flag bad management. I imagine a lot of issues with it, but I think in the end we'd be better able to ID and eliminate the bad apples. That idea also surely beats a government entity getting involved and further mucking up the process.

Comment from Toons on April 3, 2009 at 1:38PM EST

If you honestly believe 99% of them are not "dirty" you definately live in a bubble. The problem is there are 2-3 classses of collectors out there kinda like good, bad & ugly. The bad & ugly are making all of us look bad and no one has figured out how to police them. What Dateline uncovered is rampant in that segment of the industry, how can any of us be surprised? Read Mike Ginsberg's post, he makes the most sense.

Comment from Robert Tavelli, President-California Association of Collectors on April 3, 2009 at 5:58PM EST

So if someone pretends to be a cop, are they a cop or are they a criminal? Obviously, they are criminals and the real cops are still real law enforcement officers who are hired to uphold the law! Just as we are still real debt collectors working with consumers and businesses within the law to enforce that when people owe the debt and can pay the debt, they still should. Just as owing a past due debt, does not make you a bad person, being someone who collects debts does not make you a criminal or bad person. Most consumers understand that when debt is incurred, the creditor has the right to be paid. Use a collection agency to collect your debt, not a criminal! With out the ability to collect on past due accounts, we will lose the opportunity to obtain credit. My point is that people that attempt to extort money by false pretences are criminals, not bill collectors! Where are the handcuffs and prison bars?

Comment from Anonymous on April 6, 2009 at 12:25PM EST

If I, or any of our employees or managers, overhead a call like some of those on this show the offending collector would be immediately terminated. I don't mean end of day....I mean leave the premises or you will be arrested NOW!

Comment from Anonymous on April 6, 2009 at 3:15PM EST

This industry was headed towards self regulation and then subsequently derailed by the explosion of debt buying industry and their cowboy ways. But back to the question "where is the outrage?" The outrage is muffled by the agency owner who employs a series of compliance safeguards, Trains and retrains, Monitors and verifies and still gets sued over technical issues or outright lies. The outrage dies or just joins the inner numb feeling when you hear about the growth in the medical debt purchasing sector as you buckle up and get ready for yet another misguided public relations slam.

Comment from Anonymous on April 7, 2009 at 5:45PM EST

The outrage exists in a vacuum that has no relationship to valid debts or availability of credit. The debt purchasing explosion; and the fraudulent, or at least reckless attempts to collect on dubious or invalid debt has led to the recent abhorrent practices. There is no differentiation between categories of debt--what has been discharged, what hasn't, what is recoverable, what isn't--when purchasers are paying the pennies for lump receivables. This is where further regulation is needed. Did the industry police itself before FDCPA? Would it have implemented the (insufficient) safeguards that currently exist without it? You are in denial if you answer in the affirmative.

Comment from JKSennish on April 13, 2009 at 9:55AM EST

I agree that strict enforcement is Managements responsibility. There are no gray areas in that regard. Yet, I can honestly say I've never fired a collector. Admittedly, I helped quite a few to realize they had just fired themselves.