The Government Accountability Office (GAO) released to the public a report called "CREDIT CARDS: Fair Debt Collection Practices Act Could Better Reflect the Evolving Debt Collection Marketplace and Use of Technology"

We'll be running something in the insideARM news tomorrow about this, of course. But here is the Cliffs Notes version of the recommendations to Congress:

create rules that force debt buyers to adequately address validation requests, going so far as to appear requiring media at sale

amend the FDCPA to address new communications technologies. Specifically mentioned: answering machine/voice mail, cell phones, fax and email, Caller ID, and predictive dialers.

give the FTC authority to change the rules so that we don't have to go through this whole process again, complete with an act of Congress, to make minor adjustments.

The section on technology comes off as sympathetic to debt collectors, believe it or not.

Oh, and the knee-slapper of the day goes to Senator Carl Levin who said, "Debt collection abuses are not getting the attention they should." That's good stuff.

Apparently Levin is using the report to push his agenda of banning out of statute debt altogether.

Let's hope the GAO mandates all original creditors to include at least the last six month of statements with every account or the original application sold as part of any sale, not just a spread sheet, nor should they be able charge $10.00 per page premium on media. The price of media and chain of title should incorporated into the sale price, just as similar to real estate transactions (i.e title fee, transfer fee etc). This will be equitable solutions for creditors, debt buyers and those consumers who are in denial and are looking for validation.

No.

Keep the government out of the pricing, and let the market determine. If there are people out there willing to pay for the docs, let them make that mistake. The market will work itself out. Buyers should be the ones putting pressure on the banks to provide documentation, NOT the government. It's the one thing that I am continually annoyed at in this industry, that the buyers aren't pushing back at the banks on the docs, but they have that right to charge and should keep it. They'll learn when buyers decide that they won't purchase the paper, NOT when government gets involved.

Banks are charging that much so they won't have to do the work to pull it, because it's of little to no benefit to them. That's their right.

The banks would price all that stuff in anyway. They would just hike up the price.

Scooter makes a good point and I agree - But the banks are so red taped by nature, I fear it will take government action to force them to include docs in debt sales.

The problem with large banks is they operate a lot like the government. Many of the employees follow the path of least resistance and do not go out of their way to do the right thing. They do the minimum that is required to keep the heat off of them. So until it becomes impossible to sell debt without docs, it won't happen.

Sorry to be a pessimist, but these bank people are entrenched and will not change. It's sad really. The market (buyers) can't effectively force the issue because there's always some jerk in Buffalo or Jersey willing to buy whatever he can with or without docs - because they have a slash and burn business model and could give a rats rear-end about validating debts or ever actually filing a suit.

Just my thoughts

[KFH]ROY, well said.

If the GAO lives up to the word Accountability why does the report only focus on the Collector side of the action. If they want to provide a "fair" assessment of the problem, why do they not show how many debtors lie ether in getting their credit card or loan OR when "correctly" contacted by a collector???

Why not make it a felony for a debtor who lies when correctly contacted or who falsely says they do not owe the money if proven that they do!!!

It is like the Tax Master commercial I see on TV - what you have not filed a tax form in five (5) years - contact us and we'll make sure the IRS respects you and you get a financial break.

Oh well off I'm off my high horse...but the even if the debtors are as guilty as sin they vote and elected officials always respond to the voting blocks!

If the Collection Industry & the market did such a great job, why is there a million people from every walk of life from Congressman to Senators looking at our industry to regulate it. There is fundamental flaw in the process of Debt Sales and it all boils down to proof of debt.

The OC's have the proof and they need pass it along to buyers and reseller to next buyer without a profit motive and this in turn creates a clean market because anyone selling debt without media can potentially be considered unsafe to do business with.

I guess the stock market and housing market did not need any regulation either since the market corrects everything and look how far we have come.

I agree on this 100% if the proof is available at point of sale, what will the debtors say then?? That would clean up 75% of the complaints...You would see people like Lungbutter, fdcpa101, and others crawl under their rocks....

I think it would be a great thing if the laws mandated that all debt must be accompanied by media.

It only makes a cleaner smoother transaction. Oh but then debtors will really evade the calls then wouldnt they?

Tool

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The more calls you make, the more debtors you talk too, the more money you will collect...........so why are you on this board? get on the phone! PRIME TIME!

...and a strong argument is being made on THIS thread that such an action violates constitutional law. Wisconsin and Mississippi's recent statutes that extinguish the very right to even call a person on an out of statute debt have violated constitutional law that prohibits states from passing such laws.

.

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"I know this might sound weird but I came to this web site because Derek is stalking my family" - 05/21/2008 by Jane (mentally deranged sister of convicted con-man James Tibor).

I for one have stayed out of debt buying for this main reason because a good % of debtors that get on the phone to talk are doing to assert their right to validation and when you know you have no media to back up your claim that account is now worthless paper in your port.

So, once the rules change and word gets out that all account sold have proof of debt, we can finally see the disputes dramatically drop and Ca's & debtors will start having meaningful conversation to work out the account. This will benefit everyone one involved OC's, CA's, Passaive & Active Debt buyers.

Even OOS debt will be become more collectible since most debtors will be reluctant to come to court and assert affirmative defense because now they aware that the claim is attached to real proof. Of course the savvy debtors can still assert the defense no doubt.

Edited: 10/25/2009 at 04:56 PM by lavy

No it wouldn't. Many complaints filed don't deny the existence of the debt...just the methods used to collect it. Even in my case, where the debt is not mine, the complaints I filed never even addressed that issue. I didn't have to. FDCPA violations are actionable regardless of the validity of the underlying debt. The complaints will only be 'cleaned up' when your industry cleans up.



If proof was available, I'd never have crawled out from under the rock to begin with. I was drawn into this by the scumbag JDB's who put BS accounts on my credit that weren't mine, that they couldn't prove were mine, and were nasty in their collection efforts. If the proof were transferred with the sale, they would not have tagged me for someone else's debt, and would not have tried to jack me like some second-rate car thief.

As fdcpa101 points out....when you are a high school drop out, don't try to match wits with someone who holds an MBA. Your ill-fated brethren bit off more than they could chew when they tried to extort me. I thank them. My bank account thanks them.

As long as your industry continues to break the law with impunity, there will be the Lungbutter's and fdcpa101's of the world. You want us to 'crawl under our rocks'? Stop breaking the law.

Translation: Stupid deadbeat's are finally learning their rights. We can no longer use harassing telephone calls to intimidate them, because they might actually ask for proof that they owe us money instead of cowering under our withering verbal attack. Now that they know their rights, we can't extort money from them on a debt we can't even prove they owe, especially since we don't even really know if they owe it. Hope that database we bought was correct. Stupid debtors...ruining our business model.





Translation: Ah...so we'll have them by the balls. They will know they owe money and be afraid to assert their rights, even though we violate the law as a course of business.





Translation: Hopefully, the general public will remain ignorant of their state's SOL and allow us to receive default judgments on debt we really shouldn't sue on anyway. It's o.k. for us to be unethical, as long as the court or the Defendant doesn't figure out what we're doing.



Translation: We need to quickly identify anyone who actually knows their rights and not sue them, 'cuz we may open ourselves up to countersuits. That sucks that we can't swindle everyone, just most. Maybe we could file some affidavits signed by a dead woman like Portfolio Recovery does.

"Even OOS debt will be become more collectible since most debtors will be reluctant to come to court and assert affirmative defense because now they aware that the claim is attached to real proof. "

Funny how another poster is advertising out of stats debt for sale today. I'm sure they'd shakedown an 80 year old widow on an out of stat debt.......... just to add a couple bucks to their monthly commission check. Sounds like you got things under control here Lungbutter. Keep up the good work !

Why are these pinheads allowed on here???

Where is the regulators on here. These guys Lungbutter and FDCPA101 need to be removed. Go to the debtor boards!

Tool

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The more calls you make, the more debtors you talk too, the more money you will collect...........so why are you on this board? get on the phone! PRIME TIME!

These "Pinheads" are college educated hardworking adults who know more than 99% of your staff on an industry we have never been apart of. Asking us to leave is admitting you have no rebuttal to our objective analysis other than name calling.

Your so smart you didnt read the posting rules here right? You do not belong here. Your asking for rebutts shows your pinheaded approach and opinions. I am done arguing with you cause you are a debtor and will never understand this business. Like a nat, just doesnt go away. Your only hurting your case even more everytime you open your mouth. You are only proving my case even more and showing your true colors here. Continue to hide behind your computer screen, internet makes it so easy doesnt it?

Tool

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The more calls you make, the more debtors you talk too, the more money you will collect...........so why are you on this board? get on the phone! PRIME TIME!

Translation: God I hate these guys. They keep calling me out and I have NO response. Hmmmm....a good name calling is always an intelligent response.....

What's funny is that I've never disagreed with your basic premise....that bad consumers exist and that the collection industry needs to be cleaned up. I try not to be too disagreeable in my posts...only to point out what I feel are flawed arguments or reasoning.

The above post is a perfect example. The basic thought there is that it's o.k. to unethically sue on OOS debt as long as the consumer doesn't realize that's it's OOS and/or is too afraid to assert an affirmative defense. I disagree. And I think it's unethical to try to collect money when you have no proof that the debt even exists. I have no problem with collectors that try to collect on legitimate debts, in a law-abiding way. I think it's unethical for consumers to intentionally run up debt and then sue in an effort to rid themselves of the debt.

Always remember: Your industry created me and those like me. :-)

Lungbutter,
If you go back and read your buddies posts (fdcpa101) you will see that the debtors created this enviroment by ducking, hiding, and refusing to pay debt they know they owe. I can gurantee you wiht out a doubt that 99% of the debtors I talk too owe the debt, they know they borrowed the money, and know they should pay it back but refuse to do so. The sad fact is, they hide behind things like "show me proof" or "its so old"

LIke someone mentioned earlier. If you borrowed 5k from your father in law, and 10yrs later he told you to pay him back would you use the same excuses? Its different when you know who you are borrowing it from right?

I also gurantee you if all the debtors who cry wolf, just stepped up and did the right thing, and said "yea I know I owe it, but I cant pay it in full right now" the complaints would dwindle to nothing. Again alot of people may not like this but it all comes down to morals. Collectors have gotten aggresive because of dihonest debtors. You can not deny that.

Tool

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The more calls you make, the more debtors you talk too, the more money you will collect...........so why are you on this board? get on the phone! PRIME TIME!

Edited: 11/02/2009 at 10:59 PM by collectiontool

Every three months or so, we get your types FDCPA 101 & Lungbutter on the board and after few months they vanish just like many others in the past. I suspect you guys will do the same soon.