First, I want to apologize in advance for the length, detail and disorganization of this posting. My head feels like its going to explode.

After spending a considerable amount of time researching laws, etc. I'm left confused and unsure of where I stand and what else I can do to improve my situation. I sought specifics and I only got generalities.

In November 2007 I looked at my credit report to see a key derogatory debt that I had no previous knowledge of and had no idea what/where it was from.

My research suggests that I should have been notified by someone (creditor or collector) prior to the debt showing on the credit report.

Question#1: Should I have been notified and given a chance to dispute the debt (or make payment arrangements) prior to it being reported to a CRA?

I contacted the collection agency looking for information. They told me it was from a gas company for $389. I initially disputed it. After contemplating I decided to take care of the debt. I had left the apartment without shutting off the gas service in February 2003. A friend was to take over the apartment and change the service to his name. Turns out he moved elsewhere. I have no idea how long after before the utility company shut off service. I claimed responsibility for not taking responsibility. Nonetheless, I was never informed of the debt. It was never even posted until November 2007.

The "Date Opened" listed on my credit report suggested April 2005. My personal credit reports that have dates on them rangin from May 2005 to September 2006 show no indication of such debt. I have other reports but they were not date stamped.

It is my understanding that the "date opened" is the point of initial delinquency.

Question #2: Is the account "date opened" the point of initial delinquency?
Question #3: Once in collection, when does the agency report to CRAs?
Question #4: Should the agency have submitted information to CRAs upon first obtaining account information and/or after notifying debtor?

In November 2007 I made payment arrangements with the collection agency. I was to have $64.83 withdrawn from my checking account every month until paid off, a total of 6 months. I would check my (paper) statements as soon as I received them.
My March 2008 statement showed no withdrawls from the agency. On April 16, 2008 I called the agency to find out why after 4 payments they stopped collecting. I was informed that the account was pulled by the original creditor. I asked what I could do to clear this up and pay it off. I was told to contact the utility company.

I called the utility company and made arrangements that day to pay it completely. They actually asked for more than the balance ($129.66) left, they wanted $153. I complied and was informed that I would be received a refund. By May 2008 I received my refund and my credit report no longer showed the key derogatory debt.... Until October 8, 2009, where it appeared that I owed a balance of $130.

My credit score went from a well deserved 747 (posted 9/30/09) to 663 (posted 10/08/09) on Experian (I was at 562 in May 2005). This is when I immediately started researching FCRA & FDCPA and any other legalities pertaining to my situation.

I found that once a debt has been removed from a credit report for over a year it cannot be resubmitted/reposted to CRAs as long as that information is verified to be accurate.

Its a good thing I keep notes... I called the agency 10/8/09 and asked what their internal comments had to say in regards to my payments and why they stopped. I was told due to insufficient funds in my bank account. I was livid but tried to keep my cool. I asked when their office closed so I could look through my files and get back to him. I tried but couldnt reach anyone when I called back 20 minutes later. At that point I called the utility company to verify the information I had in regards to paying them was accurate. Yes we were on the same page. I requested a letter stating that the account was paid in full. I called the collection agency back and told them that I am disputing the debt and once they verify this I want them to report their findings to CRAs.

I checked my credit report today and now Equifax has the debt listed, over a week later.

Question #5: What is the verification process of a debt for the CRA?
Question #6: Who ultimately validates a debt? The collection agency or creditor?
Question #7: Is information submitted to CRAs at roughly the same time?
Question #8: Does one person per establishment handle this task or are there multiple hands involved?
Question #9: Do collection agencies have any red flags such as an account being 'on hold', inactive, suspended or closed prompt anyone to actually verify whether the account still needs to be paid?
Question #10: (kinda like questions 5 & 6 but more specific) What is the verification process of the collection agency once a debt has been removed for over a year and resubmitted to CRA?
Question #11: Do CRAs receive red flags?

I made some more calls; The collection agency told me that the only internal comments in their system are from November 2007 and October 8, 2009 and nothing in between.

Question #12: Who do you trust when it comes to speaking with a collection agency?
(The guy that tells me they can't pull money out of my account due to insufficient funds (where did he get the(false) information to tell me this?) or the lady that says there is no information?)

Question #13: Are collectors required to submit (internal)comments when speaking with anyone regarding an account?


Any and all information is greatly appreciated... questions too. Thank you!

I don't think anyone is going to read, absorb, and answer your 13 questions as posted. Well, maybe Fleppie will. But, you'll then have 2 wade ~~ through ~~ the annoying (doodles) and internet myths, (if) ya will.

It might be better if you narrow the scope of your questioning to 2-3 of the most pressing issues, absorb the responses, then follow up with additional questions.

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...the FDCPA enlists the efforts of sophisticated consumers....as "private attorneys general" to aid their less sophisticated conterparts, who are unlikely themselves to bring suit under the Act, but who are assumed by the Act to benefit from the deterrent effect of civil actions brought by others.

Now Norman.........

The negative energy you wasted in that post could have easily answered the OP's questions...... that is ..... if you know the answers.........

Thank you for allowing me to live rent free in your head..... and the Voodoo doll is still not working........

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Father.. Forgive .... Me... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6784iq86G0

:0)

Greetings,

Your questions concern two distinct federal laws, one concerning collection companies and one concerning credit reporting companies ( where did the crazy idea of calling them " agencies " come from, I wonder ? ).

Verification of a dataline entry on a credit report is one thing, validation of a debt is another.

Fleppie: why would you want to live in anyones head ? its pretty outside. go to the beach, get some sun.

SpyBoy

ButtBoy, thank you for posting your 245th utterly useless response that, as usual, provides absolutely NO benefit to anyone except to yourself, given that its only purpose is self-serving, giving you a false sense of being in a position of authority to practice armchair law.....

Please, step aside before you hurt yourself or open yourself to yet another embarrassing attack on your complete lack of knowledge in this industry.

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"I know this might sound weird but I came to this web site because Derek is stalking my family" - 05/21/2008 by Jane (mentally deranged sister of convicted con-man James Tibor).

cwotjan,

There are several key pieces of information missing from your post that are needed in order to assist you. At the same time, your post is chaulk full of information not needed in order to assist you. You obviously have some known knowns, some known unknowns, and plenty of unknown unknowns.

This thread will require more time to deal with than I have available at the moment. Mainly, I wanted to prevent you from being misled by the local troll above. I will attempt to address this later when I have more time available. In the meantime, be sure to qualify any responses as being from true collection professionals, not the armchair attorney slugs that escaped their cages over on the consumer discussion boards you have already sought help with (but which you received none, right?)

.

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"I know this might sound weird but I came to this web site because Derek is stalking my family" - 05/21/2008 by Jane (mentally deranged sister of convicted con-man James Tibor).

Greetings,

Derek; I will not step aside, and I invite you ( to present your threatened attack, which will not hurt me, nor embarrass me under any circumstances ) to articulate, specifically, any point of information I have shared on this forum which displayed ' a complete lack of knowledge of this industry ".

SpyBoy

See my signature for a quote of statement you made a while back, and refer back to your prior 246 posts . . . you need more than 246 examples of nonsensical rubbish?

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I'm all for consumer's rights, but you simply can't fix stupid. - Some Guy (5/4/09)

Actually, every one of my posts on this board have been uncalled for. - Spy Boy (8/2/07)

No. The FCRA does not require creditors to advise you before they play something on your credit report. However, you should check with your state laws. Some state laws to require this. However, at that point there's also the issue of preemption. But don't worry about that for now.



Usually, however, that collectors are notorious for re-aging trade lines. They have no scruples. Consequently, you cannot be sure.



Whenever they feel like it. They don't even have to report it. Many do not. It just leaves them open for more lawsuits.



That is not required.



Believe it or not, the typical verification takes less than one minute. It is basically nonexistent.



Normally, whoever is reporting on the trade line must verify the debt.



Again, not necessarily. In fact, many creditors and debt collectors do not report to all three credit reporting agencies.



This seems like a silly question. Every creditor or a debt collector has different procedures in place. Why would you even care about this?



Most debt collectors keep collection notes. These collection notes are really nothing more than a fantasy. It is a rare situation indeed were a debt collector admits to doing something wrong in the debt collection notes. These notes are of little use to anyone. Everyone knows they are self-serving.



Asked and answered.



I have no idea what you mean by that.



Absolutely no one. Never, and I mean never, believe anything a debt collector tell you. In almost every case they are lying to you. If a debt collector tells you something and tries to make a deal with you always get it in writing. Do not believe a debt collector when they tell you they're going to give you a deal, or they're going to do this for you, or that for you, or whatever. Never, ever believe a debt collector over the telephone. Get everything in writing. Most debt collectors will lie to you over the telephone but they will not lie to you in writing. As a side note, never given a debt collector any personal information about yourself. Don't tell them your new address, your new phone number, or anything like that. Further, don't give them your checking account number, or your routing number, or anything of that sort.



Again, that is not exactly a clear question. However, they often time keep internal notes. The problem with these notes is that they are very self-serving. They are taken by the debt collector themselves, and it is a rare case indeed when a debt collector types in that they violated the law.

I'll add a little to this. In regards to the FCRA, I direct you to sec 611(a)(5)(B) Reinsertion of Negative Information.

If I'm following your story right, you had a negative TL on your report up until May 2008. Then it was gone. And now it's showing again for a balance of 130.

A few questions. Is it the same collection agency reporting the delinquent balance?
If so, have you sent them the documents from the utility company showing paid in full?
And does the paid in full letter have a date that predates the tradeline?
Did you dispute the original tradeline in 2008 to have it removed?

If yes to all of the above, I again refer you to the section I mentioned above. Read it, make sure the CRAs responded appropriately. If all you're aiming to do is get this off your credit report (since it's obvious you don't owe the debt), then use 611 to your advantage. While you're at it, go ahead and send a VOD letter to the CA reporting, include the paid in full letter from the utility. This tradeline should come off with relative ease.

In the event the CA wants to hardball you, use sec 623(a) and (b) and dispute directly with the information furnisher. Be sure to use this dispute method after you dispute with the CRAs under 611.

Hope that helps.