I frequent a consumer board (no, not the one you all know and love/hate, but pro-consumer sentiment just the same) and I just wanted to share with you what I feel are the TOP misconceptions about the world of collections that consumers have. I am not in the collections field myself, and I am quite pro-consumer, however I am anti-idiot. There is a LOT of TERRIBLY BAD information out there on some consumer sites, and here's some of the worst of it:

1. Collections agencies have 30 days to answer a DV. Bull (as you all know), while continued collections activity is prohibited until validation is sent (and even that is only the case with a TIMELY DV, the consumer has 30 days from the initial notice to do this, that's probably where the number comes from), obviously there is no time frame for a collections agency to provide validation, except I believe in Texas per the TFC.

2. OOS debt is no longer owed. Bad debt is bad debt, and it never goes away. Even if the SOL for legal action has expired, the debt still exists. Even if the SOL for credit bureau reporting is expired, the debt still exists. It may have been sold 20 times over for pennies on the dollar, but it's still there. Now there's really no need for a consumer to pay it other than conscience, as there is nothing that can be done to them after the SOL for legal action and credit reporting have expired, so there's that.

3. That `everything but the kitchen sink' letter. Yeah, that's actually what prompted me to post this, I saw it in the debt collection forum here. People who don't know what they're doing see a sample letter and just fire it off, you guys probably see this all the time. While the Chaundry (sp?) case suggests that validation must come from the OC (I'm sure some of you will disagree with that though), validation is never really clearly defined in the FDCPA or any case law I'm aware of. Essentially, validation is whatever you can convince a judge it is, should it come to that. Would your validation be enough to convince a judge that the consumer owes the debt? If so, it's good enough.

4. 100% of collectors lie 100% of the time. This is the mantra of many on the consumer side, and I can assure you that from my own personal experience this is just not true. There are collectors who lie and lie big, just as there are dishonest mechanics, swindling investment brokers, and various liars and cheats in every field. I personally dealt with a collector last year, a collections law firm who handles taxes exclusively, and their agent was courteous, helpful, and understanding. Though the situation was my fault, they were kind enough to withdraw a tax lien for a promised payment. They're not ALL bad.

5. Seems to be a lot of people who believe that OC's have to `validate' or are in some way subject to the FDCPA. While they are subject to the FCRA if they furnish data to credit bureaus as any data furnisher is, the FDCPA does not apply to OC's in MOST cases.

Anyway that's just my thoughts. Any thoughts, corrections, disagreements or other comments? Just throwing it out there in the interest of pointing out the dangers of misinformation.

A common misperception "we" have of debtors is that..

100% of the time, a debtor will ignore facts that do not support their personal agenda of avoiding the debt they incurred.

Just sayin'.. According to my perception of debtors, none of them will acknowledge what you just posted as the truth.

Thanks for the morning laugh and re-iteration that we're not always dealing with the sharpest tools in the shed, albeit tools they usually are.

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beat it.

Funny.... what Some Guy posted above I have posted ON Debtorboards on several occasions.

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Visit the Credit Terrorist Training Camp - http://www.debtorboards.com

A telephone in the hands of a collector is like a crowbar - it can be used to pry a mouth open wide enough to insert a foot.

AJ,
I agree with what you say......you can post this to every debtor and they just refused to recognize it. I think it is partly because ever time there is a 20/20 or dateline story done, they never report the collecion side. Its always the crying debtors who refuse to pay....

I know I sound pretty harsh but after 25 yrs of hearing the lies, watching them run, play hide and seek, more lies, I just want people to wake up....smell the coffee.... if its a debtor complaining, its cause they dont want to pay their bill. They will twist and turn a conversation into a play so they look like the victim......They flat out lie about having legal rep and they will have them call, never do.

I could go on and on, as most I am sure can...I would suspect that alot of the claims of collectors threatening and so on, most of them are blown way out proportion and not really what took place...

Are there bad collectors? Absolutly, and I think they should be banned and 8 balled out of the business....but I am really sick and tired of all collectors being put into a fish bowl and all being labeled.......

stop the smoke, all the side bar aligations, lets talk truth here people. 100% fact, truth only........I so wish I could go on dateline and have them do a special (secret overt operation) to show how it is on our end.......

Tool

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The more calls you make, the more debtors you talk too, the more money you will collect...........so why are you on this board? get on the phone! PRIME TIME!

Point proven.........do I need to say anything else?

Tool

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The more calls you make, the more debtors you talk too, the more money you will collect...........so why are you on this board? get on the phone! PRIME TIME!

Edited: 07/23/2009 at 10:19 AM by collectiontool

Tool - you're preaching to "moral principles" that existed 20-25 years ago. Times have a' changed. Adapt or Die! hah

I think the credit and collection world is going to become MORE hostile than in the past, as a result of the wave of consumer rights actions, lawsuits, bad press etc. It's the law of nature that we'll be damaged, tighten up, reorganize our affairs and fight back with vigor previously unseen. The courts will be swamped with high quality lawsuits with every piece of documentation you can imagine behind them, higher fees, legal costs etc., eventually passed on to "mr good citizen turn debtor in distress, I promise I'll pay when I can"..

Enforcement of judgments is already becoming easier in some states, with use of technology and automation, i.e. electronic filing, expedited asset location etc..

Some people may start praying for the return of arbitration forums.. lmao

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beat it.

I Understand what your saying, and I agree. Im just stating a fact. You are correct Moral Values are gone. The days of people paying their debt cause its the right thing to do, those days are history.

There will be a backlash come eventually. Eventually things will come out and the industry will no longer tolerate the abuse towards the industry by money hungery attys and debtors....Imagine the economy if there were no collection agencies......I just think reality has to come into play eventually. Thus far it has not.

Tool



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The more calls you make, the more debtors you talk too, the more money you will collect...........so why are you on this board? get on the phone! PRIME TIME!

Edited: 07/23/2009 at 11:22 AM by collectiontool

Tool - I didn't say "moral values are gone".

I said you are preaching to moral principles/values of yesterday.

I have a feeling your values are different than mine already.. haha

Part to blame for the increasing hostility between debtors and collectors certainly are.... collectors

those that seem to put themselves onto a pedestal of expectations that no one can live up to, usually not even the collector him/herself.

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beat it.

AJ,
My values I believe are pretty simple. Be honest, be fair, work hard, forgive those who have hurt us, be law abiding, and PAY DEBTS YOU OWE!

Dont get me wrong, I understand people go through things in life that can be hard. Shoot I have myself. Have I had bill collectors call me in the past? Absolutly...did I lie, try to hide, screen my calls, hide assets, no I did not, I answered the call, accepted the fact I owed a bill, worked with the collector and kept my arrangemnts and paid my debt. If that is thinking I am above everyone else, call me guilty i guess. I see it as simply being honest and stepping up and taking care of business.

Tool

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The more calls you make, the more debtors you talk too, the more money you will collect...........so why are you on this board? get on the phone! PRIME TIME!

tool said imagine the economy if there were no collections agencies, that's an interesting thought. Again, I'm a consumer but my guess would be that creditors would sue a lot more people, as that would be their only recourse to recover anything. It's probably easier for them to sell off bad debt rather than to sue for every account. As a result of the increased expense to recover anything from a defaulted account, I suspect credit would be tighter, probably a lot of store cards (that currently are given to just about anyone) wouldn't exist.

I have no doubt there are PLENTY of people with legitimate owed debts that simply want to get out of having to pay anything. There are others, though probably quite the minority, who simply won't pay collections agencies because of the credit implications. I've heard rumors that newer FICO models will be discounting paid collections under $100. It's a shame paid collections aren't at least slightly better than unpaid collections, but from a FICO standpoint they currently aren't.

Then there are also some people who genuinely don't owe what a creditor claims they owe (wrong name, ID theft, etc), these are clearly the people the laws were designed to protect.

The laws were actually crafted by the collections industry.

They were not crafted to "protect" any sub group of consumer.

They were crafted to prevent the well documented and proven abuse by the collections industry.

Now that we have cleared those misconceptions up please carry on

The times for that lonely collector cowboy armed with little more than moral values and a phone are long gone, this days everything is about compliance and documentation, you never know what the debtor knows, Jezz I've been reading over that debtor forums some guys in here are discussing consumer law like professional attorneys, some really know the stuff and don't mind to give it away for free. Reading some of those post I could visualize the potential nightmares they could create in some very common situations

I think since the internet became so popular those cowboys were dammed. Non compliance this days brings consumer lawsuits, a very fast and painful way to go out of business, not only FDCPA also FCRA suits if the collector reports to the bureaus.

Carl, do you really believe that the extremely sophisticated consumer (what some in these parts call a credit terrorist) is the norm? Granted there are people out there who have taken the time to painstakingly go through laws and court cases, but there are tons more who just read one web page then fly off misusing, misquoting and just completely missing the point entirely. And I would think that there are still PLENTY of people who have never even heard of the FDCPA or FCRA out there. But I guess you're right, a debt collector never knows who is aware of what at the point of first contact.

Yet it does seem many debt collection agencies fold at the first sign of the consumer knowing ANYTHING. When I was working on my now ex-wife's credit, time after time after receiving a dunning letter we'd send a simple "This alleged debt is disputed in its entirety. Furthermore, telephone calls at any time or place are inconvenient and will be recorded." and you'd be surprised how few were ever heard back from.

As the owner of one of those boards (and many here would say I own one of the most litigation-minded boards) what you say is exactly why I created that Board - to do what I could to drive the Cowboy Collectors out of business by educating consumers about the laws and how to enforce them. I don't try to hide that fact nor do I apologize for it. I only wish more consumers knew what they ought to know.


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Visit the Credit Terrorist Training Camp - http://www.debtorboards.com

A telephone in the hands of a collector is like a crowbar - it can be used to pry a mouth open wide enough to insert a foot.

Point proven? Need you say more? I think so. Obviously that poster has to be some kind of escape artist to get out of the fact that at least 95% of all debt collection cases end in either default or summary judgment for the plaintiff.

Bragging on message boards is one thing but they never prove their brags with references to actual court cases that can be either looked up on the net or proven with a phone call to the appropriate court clerk.

If they won't give court names and locations and case cites then its just blowing smoke. Nothing more.

Edited: 10/28/2009 at 12:43 PM by Tarp

Now why would you say that? Back it up.

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The FDCPA Litigant Alert
Until 12/31/2009, we are scrubbing collection agency databases 100% FREE! - Details at webrecon.com/free

Because greedy debt collectors insist on adding charges and interest that are not owed. You also collect on bankruptcies. I have also seen cases where the debt collector takes the money and then "resets" the debt, demanding the original amount all over again. Most importantly, you fail to prove that you even own the debt. You seem to believe that people should pay on a credit card debt to some debt collector who mailed them a letter. Why would they do that? What happees when the credit card company starts asking for the money, does the consumer say, "I gave it to a debt collector?"

massive generalizations are worthless.

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The FDCPA Litigant Alert
Until 12/31/2009, we are scrubbing collection agency databases 100% FREE! - Details at webrecon.com/free

Yeah-we need to be more specific, the way you do it, right? As far as I can tell everything you say are generalizations. You seem to just want to say something. The truth of the matter is, Congress passed a law regulating debt collectors after they did a study and found what everyone already knew. Debt collectors are abusive. You can try to sidestep that issue and pretend it's not true all you like. However, your denials, rationalizations, and platitudes, are of little use.